Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

#26 by animal , Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:21 pm

Has anyone got a picture of this bumper as I don't go on farcebook much as I find it highly annoying .

#27 by yozer13 , Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:33 am

I wouldn't rush into a sva test as it's a nightmare, with custom bikes it's such a ballache as there's so much to comply with.
I could be totally wrong but I'm sure for sva your bumpers Will have a maximum height and also distance from tyre to arch can't be over a certain height or something like that, then you got the bits like a snorkel that protrudes out the wing which could cause harm to a pedestrian could be same for a winch protruding out of a bumper ext. which is stupid as if your hit by a 2t truck the bits poking out would be the least of your worries lol.
Like I said could be wrong but there's something silly like that .

#28 by yozer13 , Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:34 am

Yeah I tried to find the post and couldn't I all ways miss the face book barneys

#29 by Rob1307 , Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:31 am

So who is going to be the first person to design and build a hook on winch mount for the l200 ? Store it in the tub and hook it on for off-roading with an Anderson connector for power . You could go the whole hog and put a mount on the back and use it front or rear keeping the control box under the bonnet

#30 by Greigboy , Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:08 am

Quote: animal wrote in post #26
Has anyone got a picture of this bumper as I don't go on farcebook much as I find it highly annoying .

I wouldn't want to post pictures of other people's trucks without permission, but it was a similar design to this, in a home made stylee

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#31 by Fielder , Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:22 am

Quote: robert3040 wrote in post #20
Cheers for the input and your knowledge Greig.
Yoda,Fielder, I won't me moving my Mck bumper as I bought mine in 2006 prior to owning the truck.(took it off my 4 Runner) I did tell Mck not to maake yours so high and protruding ! 😜
If you knock a person down up here they are usually so pissed they just bounce off and say "Sorry mate"

Depends, if it's near the Pikey camp you reverse back over to make sure! ;)

I'm not going to be removing mine either, I'm just going to be extra careful around pedestrian zones. The one advantage of these L200's is they are so bloody slow you can't speed anyway.

Quote: Rob1307 wrote in post #29
So who is going to be the first person to design and build a hook on winch mount for the l200 ? Store it in the tub and hook it on for off-roading with an Anderson connector for power . You could go the whole hog and put a mount on the back and use it front or rear keeping the control box under the bonnet

They have these in the states already, Tube style detachable tow hook mount on the front that you can slip a winch tray and winch into if needed.

#32 by chris666 , Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:18 am

Wenn Sie hier auf Links zu eBay klicken und einen Kauf tätigen, kann dies dazu führen, dass diese Website eine Provision erhält.

Quote: Greigboy wrote in post #30
Quote: animal wrote in post #26
Has anyone got a picture of this bumper as I don't go on farcebook much as I find it highly annoying .

I wouldn't want to post pictures of other people's trucks without permission, but it was a similar design to this, in a home made stylee

Not as bad as this one this is what you call a frontal protection system
Werbung: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Def...TYAAOSw9mFWKJpf

#33 by Rob1307 , Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:10 pm

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I'm going to assume this sort of bull bar is also a no no

#34 by ronniecabers , Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:12 pm

gonna stick ma neck on the line ....perfectly legal ...perfectly legal!

( obviously I know its not! )

#35 by woody13 , Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:24 pm

Yeah,sorry I was a bit harsh with my comments about wrapping my bumper in razor wire.I think I'm gonna weld on 12" sharpened spikes instead....

#36 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:44 pm

I messaged ARB Europe quite a while ago about this issue as it has been discussed before, I finally got a response today.
I had asked about the legality of the ARB Winch bumper in regards to Europe etc, I attached the link to the TBR UK site showing the bumper I bought from them.

This is the link, http://www.tbruk.com/arb-winch-bumper-2001-p.asp
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This is the response from them,

Thank you for your enquiry, this is our interpretation of the laws regarding Bull bars,

The bumper/bull bar you have purchased is not EU compliant, as it is, according to your link, shown to be a Bull bar, which is not road legal as per a EU directive.

Vehicle frontal protection legislation, http://researchbriefings.files.parliamen...216/SN01216.pdf

The legislation, which came out in 2005, requires bumpers fitted to vehicles (even earlier than 2005) to meet EU legislation, unless the bumper was imported earlier than 2005 which could allow for a dispensation.

The only way to avoid EU compliance is for the vehicle to be designate for Off road use only, or sold for the intention of the vehicle to be permanently used outside of the EA and not driven on EU public roads, and a declaration to this effect should be issued by the supplier/fitter to prevent the supplier/fitter being liable to a £30,000 fine issued by VOSA/Police.

The company concerned should have offered you a compliant version.

Regards,

John.

John Powner
Commercial Technical Manager
Arbil 4x4 / Automotive
Tel : +44 (0)845 600 4556
Tel : Direct +44 (0)1384 895 700
Tel: Switch Board +44(0)1384 424 007
Fax : +44 (0)1384 898645
Mobile 07970792340
E-mail: john.powner@arbil.co.uk
Web : http://www.arbil.co.uk/4x4/
LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/johnpowner

So am I correct in saying that basically the ARB winch bumper is not compliant in Europe, and TBR UK should really have it stated on their page that the bumper is intended for Off Road use only etc?

#37 by 123hotchef , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:04 pm

so Greg r u going to remove the bumper!

#38 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:11 pm

No , I sold the original bumper anyway, so I can't

It's so confusing, Hopefully the UK leaves the EU and then I won't have to worry.

#39 by 123hotchef , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:14 pm

ha ha what bumper u got now then?

actually I don't suppose you have any pics of the mounting brackets from ur winch bumper do you

#40 by ronniecabers , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:19 pm

Quote: 4life greg wrote in post #36

So am I correct in saying that basically the ARB winch bumper is not compliant in Europe, and TBR UK should really have it stated on their page that the bumper is intended for Off Road use only etc?

I would say yes , and therefore TBR are misselling the product BUT imagine the law will state somewhere that it is the drivers responsibility not the sellers

#41 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:22 pm

Wenn Sie hier auf Links zu eBay klicken und einen Kauf tätigen, kann dies dazu führen, dass diese Website eine Provision erhält.

Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #39
ha ha what bumper u got now then?

actually I don't suppose you have any pics of the mounting brackets from ur winch bumper do you

I have the same bumper as per that link and picture, the ARB Winch Bumper, had it for about 5 years now, sold the trucks original bumper on eBay.

I don't have any pics of the mounting brackets, still abroad so can't take any either, I'll see if I can find any online if you want.

#42 by 123hotchef , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:23 pm

I need to make some brackets for my ARB or tmj bumper cant remember what it is now

when ya back Greg?

#43 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:28 pm

Quote: ronniecabers wrote in post #40
Quote: 4life greg wrote in post #36
So am I correct in saying that basically the ARB winch bumper is not compliant in Europe, and TBR UK should really have it stated on their page that the bumper is intended for Off Road use only etc?

I would say yes , and therefore TBR are misselling the product BUT imagine the law will state somewhere that it is the drivers responsibility not the sellers

Yeah I would expect the driver to be held responsible, it's just weird that a company like that hasn't covered their ass. Unless it's stated in small print somewhere else and covers every item they sell on their site.

#44 by Mallinman , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:30 pm

The bumper that I gave doesn't have the bars protruding forward of the bumper. Nor do they go higher than the bonnet. So I class it as a winch mount rather than a bull bar. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Prob still get s bollocking tho in a crash. I have been stopped a few times by the police and vosa (usually for the monthly pickup tank dip) and they've been all round the truck and never made comment on the bumper. Does make me wonder if they really care

#45 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:30 pm

Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #42
I need to make some brackets for my ARB or tmj bumper cant remember what it is now

when ya back Greg?

Hopefully back soon, but will be back out in this hole before xmas

#46 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:34 pm

Quote: Mallinman wrote in post #44
The bumper that I gave doesn't have the bars protruding forward of the bumper. Nor do they go higher than the bonnet. So I class it as a winch mount rather than a bull bar. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Prob still get s bollocking tho in a crash. I have been stopped a few times by the police and vosa (usually for the monthly pickup tank dip) and they've been all round the truck and never made comment on the bumper. Does make me wonder if they really care

I don't think they really care, just another stupid EU law the UK has to buy in to. But in the event of an accident then the law may come in to effect, that's the drama.

#47 by 123hotchef , Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:42 pm

Quote: 4life greg wrote in post #45
Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #42
I need to make some brackets for my ARB or tmj bumper cant remember what it is now

when ya back Greg?

Hopefully back soon, but will be back out in this hole before xmas

ill wait for some pics when you are back then if u don't mind sir

#48 by Major Malfunction , Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:13 pm

Has anyone seen these in use or can rate them, it solves the law problem
http://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/4x4_winches.html

#49 by Fielder , Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:01 pm

Quote: Major Malfunction wrote in post #48
Has anyone seen these in use or can rate them, it solves the law problem
http://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/4x4_winches.html

I actually work next door to that company, They are the ones who tried to demand extra money after fixing my tow bar for an agreed price (i posted it here). The owner is.........difficult.

but yeah removable winches are popular in the US. Very good if you can have a mount front and rear and move the winch to where it is needed.

#50 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:01 pm

Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #47
I'll wait for some pics when you are back then if u don't mind sir

@123hotchef
I had a look around on google and these are some of the better pics I could find of ARB winch bumper mounting brackets. These aren't L200 ones but they are nearly identical, the only difference are probably some of the dimensions which are relevant to the L200.

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As you can see they are sort of like rectangle box sections and these slot into mounting points on the back of the bumper. The mounts themselves are bolted to the chassis where the old bumper was, you use the two holes with captive nuts that are already there and drill another in between those two and use another bolt and nut.
Although because my truck is lifted 2" mine is only bolted into the top two holes on the chassis, so the bottom hole of the mount is in the middle hole in the chassis (the one that I had to drill) and the middle hole of the mount is in the original top hole of the chassis, that leaves the top hole of the mount not attached, this lifted the bumper 2". It still feels plenty strong enough but ideally you'd want to maybe weld a plate or something that you can bolt that top hole to, but I don't really have the ability/skills to do that.

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RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

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RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)