RE: Water injection

#26 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 2:32 pm

Here's the 300Bhp Navara with water/meth injection


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011

Last edited 05.04.2012 | Top

RE: Water injection

#27 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 3:27 pm

Has it occurred to anyone else what water injection is extremely similar to? Water contains 2 parts hydrogen. The more I'm reading the more I'm seeing that the already steamed water entering your combustion chamber is atomised by the combustion. Which in turn causes the hydrogen in the water to combust AFTER the fuel has. This has two effects. Uses up any excess fuel in the exact same way as Hydrogen fuel cell will. And secondly because the hydrogen in the water combusts after the fuel it pushes the piston back down on its return stroke at greater forces than fuel alone providing more torque and more power. At the same time the water takes significant heat away from the cylinder head, pistons and block. Adding meth into the mix is simply for even greater power gains.

I've been looking at video's on you tube from manufacturers plotting graphs showing cylinder pressure vs crank angle and the resultant torque curves before and after water/meth injection. In short it increases torque and bhp, LOWERS inlet and exhaust temps and makes for better mpg from more efficient use of your fuel in the same way hydrogen fuel cell does. And it lowers your temps so much that you can add boost and fuel to the extreme if you wish. That point proven above.

It just gets better and better, is fully proven and has already been fitted to an L200 by Devils own.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#28 by Deleted User , Fri May 04, 2012 3:31 pm

Was it fitted to a new or old shape? Also does it need to be fitted by them?



RE: Water injection

#29 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 3:31 pm

Posted by: Yoda
Has it occurred to anyone else what water injection is extremely similar to? Water contains 2 parts hydrogen. The more I'm reading the more I'm seeing that the already steamed water entering your combustion chamber is atomised by the combustion. Which in turn causes the hydrogen in the water to combust AFTER the fuel has. This has two effects. Uses up any excess fuel in the exact same way as Hydrogen fuel cell will. And secondly because the hydrogen in the water combusts after the fuel it pushes the piston back down on its return stroke at greater forces than fuel alone providing more torque and more power. At the same time the water takes significant heat away from the cylinder head, pistons and block. Adding meth into the mix is simply for even greater power gains.

I've been looking at video's on you tube -one here - from manufacturers plotting graphs showing cylinder pressure vs crank angle and the resultant torque curves before and after water/meth injection. In short it increases torque and bhp, LOWERS inlet and exhaust temps and makes for better mpg from more efficient use of your fuel in the same way hydrogen fuel cell does. And it lowers your temps so much that you can add boost and fuel to the extreme if you wish. That point proven above.

It just gets better and better, is fully proven and has already been fitted to an L200 by Devils own.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#30 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 3:34 pm

Posted by: Manraj
Was it fitted to a new or old shape? Also does it need to be fitted by them?



Judging from the picture of the engine bay it was a classic. And no you can fit it yourself or have them do it. By all accounts it's very simple. You can chose optional extras like EGT sensor and gauge and tanks. I would have a temps gauge so you can do further tuning personally.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#31 by Deleted User , Fri May 04, 2012 3:36 pm

I already have a scangauge that gives me inlet temps etc, so i would save some money there. Im seriously looking into this now as well. Also ordered the intercooler today should be here sometime next week



RE: Water injection

#32 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 3:42 pm

I have a real feeling that this is going to be epic. The intercooler will do you no harm. I'm still doing mine.

I'm thinking that the logical route is fitting temps sensors and monitor normal readings.
Fit water injection
Monitor new temp levels
Decide if I have enough power / torque as is.
If not then add more boost from twin small turbos and remap for more fuel.
wind up boost gently and monitor temps.

By all accounts it's not IF this works that is the question. It's just a case of getting your mixture of fuel/water/meth correct for your use and engine. And decide if you want meth at all.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011

Last edited 05.04.2012 | Top

RE: Water injection

#33 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 3:43 pm

Posted by: Manraj
I'm seriously looking into this now as well.



Check all my comments if you haven't. I have found good resources on the subject.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#34 by Deleted User , Fri May 04, 2012 3:53 pm

Posted by: Yoda
I have a real feeling that this is going to be epic. The intercooler will do you no harm. I'm still doing mine.

I'm thinking that the logical route is fitting temps sensors and monitor normal readings.
Fit water injection
Monitor new temp levels
Decide if I have enough power / torque as is.
If not then add more boost from twin small turbos and remap for more fuel.
wind up boost gently and monitor temps.

By all accounts it's not IF this works that is the question. It's just a case of getting your mixture of fuel/water/meth correct for your use and engine. And decide if you want meth at all.



Do i hear you say twin turbo??????



RE: Water injection

#35 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 3:59 pm

Uhuh! Not as crazy out there as you might think.

My reasons are two fold:

1/The water injection only engages under boost. Two smaller turbos means less turbo lag, but ultimately near similar pressure to one larger turbo. So the faster your boost comes on song the better the performance.

2/pretty much the same reason as above but ignoring the water injection. Small turbos spool up quicker. One large turbo means lots of lag and you have to rag it to get it to go anywhere.

So ultimately twin turbos is safer. Less total boost than one big one but still plenty for power gains. And the cooling effect of the water comes into play sooner in the rev range.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#36 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 5:08 pm

Pajero 4D56T with water/meth - graphs. Done by Devils own in America. This must be the slightly different engine fitted into the Pajero's that didn't have an ECU or electronic controlled pumps like our trucks do. So, with that in mind the base line BHP is 78bhp. What you would expect from a engine without much servicing maybe. Just by adding water / meth they increased BHP by 27 BHP to 105 BHP. Now we are starting with 115BHP in a well serviced motor. so our gain would go somewhat higher than what this Paj achieved. If you read the thread though he goes on to say that more fuel will give more power.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011

Last edited 05.04.2012 | Top

RE: Water injection

#37 by treeboa , Fri May 04, 2012 5:20 pm

Zitat
3psi start and 12psi full setting.



our v v turbos boost higher than that 30.45798 psi max


05 warrior, veg converted, no cat, no egr, no silly steel bin air filter, blood red shackles and poly bushed, buggered

try 7 up - snow white did


 
treeboa
Posts: 5.811
Date registered 10.02.2011

Last edited 05.04.2012 | Top

RE: Water injection

#38 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 5:22 pm

Hence why we have more than 80Bhp in our trucks. Thanks Mike.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#39 by Yoda , Fri May 04, 2012 5:25 pm

Interesting though that the 300bhp Navara isn't boosting THAT much more than we can already. Only 36psi.......


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#40 by treeboa , Fri May 04, 2012 5:35 pm

like everything tuning, after a fairly rapid increase point it costs proportionally more to get smaller and smaller increases in bhp


05 warrior, veg converted, no cat, no egr, no silly steel bin air filter, blood red shackles and poly bushed, buggered

try 7 up - snow white did


 
treeboa
Posts: 5.811
Date registered 10.02.2011


RE: Water injection

#41 by Yoda , Mon May 07, 2012 10:22 pm

Having an interesting conversation with Richard from Aquamist. After asking me a few questions about the trucks, he's initially suggesting that 200Bhp is an achievable goal with a water injection kit. Discussion at the moment is centring on how much boost that would need and how to get the fuel in. He's saying it would be achievable with engine temps kept to normal.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011

Last edited 05.07.2012 | Top

RE: Water injection

#42 by treeboa , Mon May 07, 2012 10:26 pm

sounds like the way forward, thats assuming your engines good enough to cope with a tuning like that, thats like a 75% increase in power on a classic


05 warrior, veg converted, no cat, no egr, no silly steel bin air filter, blood red shackles and poly bushed, buggered

try 7 up - snow white did


 
treeboa
Posts: 5.811
Date registered 10.02.2011


RE: Water injection

#43 by Basil , Mon May 07, 2012 10:30 pm

Posted by: Yoda
Having an interesting conversation with Richard from Aquamist. After asking me a few questions about the trucks, he's initially suggesting that 200Bhp is an achievable goal with a water injection kit. Discussion at the moment is centring on how much boost that would need and how to get the fuel in. He's saying it would be achievable with engine temps kept to normal.



Jesus! tell you what my wee green friend, I`ll meet you at 20,000 feet - on our respective mushroom clouds


2007, Y plate 4life,
2010, 55 plate L200 4work++
March 2013, 11 plate Barbarian. Wrapped, OME all round, remapped to 210, straight piped 2.5" SS.


 
Basil
Forum Legend
Posts: 12.392
Date registered 03.07.2012


RE: Water injection

#44 by Yoda , Mon May 07, 2012 10:33 pm

Yes! pretty much! Though keeping in mind that 145 is achievable with a bespoke remap - then adding s/s exhaust, FMIC, blanked EGR, ported head and uprated injectors and induction kit. How much I would have is open for debate but suffice to say it would be more than 145. So from that prospective it doesn't seem like such a huge leap. So therefore my rough plan was to do FMIC and s/s exhaust then fit the water injection with EGT sensor and gauge, wind up the boost (new turbo maybe) and then a more aggressive remap to bring the fuel in. But seems on initial chats that he has some different / better ideas for the fuel.


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#45 by Yoda , Mon May 07, 2012 10:35 pm

Posted by: Basil

Posted by: Yoda
Having an interesting conversation with Richard from Aquamist. After asking me a few questions about the trucks, he's initially suggesting that 200Bhp is an achievable goal with a water injection kit. Discussion at the moment is centring on how much boost that would need and how to get the fuel in. He's saying it would be achievable with engine temps kept to normal.



Jesus! tell you what my wee green friend, I`ll meet you at 20,000 feet - on our respective mushroom clouds





Lets do it! I haven't proposed the idea of water injection AND hydro yet! My assumption would be that one should stick to one or other as water injection utilises the hydrogen in the water!! But I'll mention it for a laugh to see what he says!


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#46 by Yoda , Mon May 07, 2012 10:36 pm

Posted by: treeboa
sounds like the way forward, thats assuming your engines good enough to cope with a tuning like that, thats like a 75% increase in power on a classic



As long as it doesn't over rev should be fine. Heat is the enemy and the water injection will take care of that. All in theory...........


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#47 by Basil , Mon May 07, 2012 10:41 pm

keep the truck running in case he calls social services and the fuzz lol


2007, Y plate 4life,
2010, 55 plate L200 4work++
March 2013, 11 plate Barbarian. Wrapped, OME all round, remapped to 210, straight piped 2.5" SS.


 
Basil
Forum Legend
Posts: 12.392
Date registered 03.07.2012


RE: Water injection

#48 by Yoda , Mon May 07, 2012 10:44 pm

Or the men in white coats!


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011


RE: Water injection

#49 by Basil , Mon May 07, 2012 10:48 pm

I called them already - they said they were aware!- said you were heard talking about drowning someone or something, must be confused


2007, Y plate 4life,
2010, 55 plate L200 4work++
March 2013, 11 plate Barbarian. Wrapped, OME all round, remapped to 210, straight piped 2.5" SS.


 
Basil
Forum Legend
Posts: 12.392
Date registered 03.07.2012


RE: Water injection

#50 by Yoda , Mon May 07, 2012 11:28 pm

I sent them back to you. Said they were more concerned about you trying to blow up the trucks I've drowned, with a hydrogen bomb!



(basil was `ere.. trucks drowned , not people )


"LS200" - 1UZ V8, auto tiptronic, super select, Upol Raptor paint. Bigger, faster, louder, brighter.


 
Yoda
Posts: 5.855
Date registered 10.16.2011

Last edited 05.08.2012 | Top

   

Sidney Powell responds after Trump campaign says she is not part of legal team:
decat

11,654 Pageviews
Dec. 03rd - Jan. 03rd
Xobor Create your own Forum with Xobor